[Poll] Small readjustment of class balance mod.

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How many heavies should we allow before sniper is enabled?

[Poll] Small readjustment of class balance mod. I_vote_lcap0%[Poll] Small readjustment of class balance mod. I_vote_rcap 0% 
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Total Votes : 14

[Poll] Small readjustment of class balance mod. Empty [Poll] Small readjustment of class balance mod.

Post by The Mad Hatter on 26/6/2010, 00:01

Checking to see what people think of matching the Heavy limit with the Snipers up until 5v5: 0. It seems a little excessive to allow Heavies, with Sandvich full-heal capability, to have two available slots from the start.

Sniper counters Heavy, and their polar opposite nature should be reflected on the class limits.

Sure, it's easy to say Spies can counter Heavies, but when there's only a handful of people on each team detecting Spies becomes far too easy. Additionally, with those numbers you'd need a very good Spy to effectively keep one class from dominating low-population Orange. You don't need a great sniper to line up a headshot to a slow-moving Heavy.

What do you think?

PS: Move this to the class balance discussion post if you'd like, I just thought it was a bit old and thought Suggestions was more appropriate.
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Post by vladmirbsl69 on 26/6/2010, 00:04

Really nice idea hatter. I do see alot of people raging when a heavy sits there 3v3 destroying because he does not have to worry about a sniper and spy is limited in what hatter said.
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Post by Young Greezy on 26/6/2010, 00:07

I suggested this back when we were debating class limits for the exact same reasons, I thought it was enacted with the vote too.

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Post by jameless on 26/6/2010, 00:10

Well the vote was created based on the suggestions in the format since it was 3 pages of reading I took from there.

I do like the idea though Mad Hatter. I will create a poll for it. Greezy's suggestion int he previous post was for 1 Heavy so the poll will have 3 options.

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Post by vladmirbsl69 on 26/6/2010, 00:33

ummm it wont let me vote.
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Post by jameless on 26/6/2010, 00:49

Hmm that probably means that mad hatter can't vote either. I will edit my vote then to be the 0 he suggested to start this topic and remove my opinion altogether.
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Post by Hoboapple on 26/6/2010, 04:05

can't vote, but i say one
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Post by LieuTennet on 26/6/2010, 09:19

I can't vote but "0"
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Post by The Mad Hatter on 26/6/2010, 09:38

I'm not too thrilled with "1", and I'd like to hear people's opinions as to why they think Heavy is okay 5v5 and less when their counter-class isn't.
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Post by Google on 26/6/2010, 11:29

Obviously when they rage and resort to Heavy for a raping machine.
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Post by The Mad Hatter on 26/6/2010, 11:33

Yeah, that's my concern. I don't want this vote to turn out shitty because of the people who do nothing more than type "rank" on the server.
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Post by Nicobbq on 26/6/2010, 11:41

I voted 1 heavy because I think that 2 is excessive for that few players.
However, I will not vote 0 because i dont consider the sniper to be the opposite of the heavy. Sniping on orange is really easy, you just hide and shoot, however, as a heavy you have to move onto the battlefield and another heavy or a spy can easily kill him.
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Post by vladmirbsl69 on 26/6/2010, 11:47

i vote 0. it still wont let me vote
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Post by Vital on 26/6/2010, 12:13

You haven't played very much have ya Nico? Because the heavies in game tend to DO hide and shoot from the tower and they ARE nearly impossible to kill with any class but sniping. My only solution to make heavies less powerful is to remove James bullcrap spread script(troll lawl) so heavies aren't that strong. But that doesn't solve the issue of close range against a heavy. The only way to counter a heavy in my opinion is with another heavy that has a medic with him. Although I highly doubt someone is going to play medic constantly only to just heal and not have any fun to play other classes to join in on the killing.
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Post by Young Greezy on 26/6/2010, 12:15

I voted 1 because I don't think it's smart to cut 2 classes out of the game until 10 people join. We're killing a huge dynamic of the game there. People will just be like, wtf, why can't I play heavy or sniper, server is borked, I'm leaving.

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Post by Hoboapple on 26/6/2010, 12:53

Nicobbq wrote:I voted 1 heavy because I think that 2 is excessive for that few players.
However, I will not vote 0 because i dont consider the sniper to be the opposite of the heavy. Sniping on orange is really easy, you just hide and shoot, however, as a heavy you have to move onto the battlefield and another heavy or a spy can easily kill him.
this ^
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Post by The Mad Hatter on 26/6/2010, 12:56

Heavy's dominance comes from short-range, so of course he has to move around. The counter is the long range class, the sniper. I don't see how it isn't a counter, Nico you're just comparing the two subjectively to your needs. A Heavy's worst enemy is the Sniper and vice versa in their own realm of asskicking: long range vs short.

I see your point Greezy, but if killing off sniper until 5v5 didn't change anything I don't see how Heavy would.

It's one thing to talk about it in the forums, but has anyone else on 3v3 or similar just had a Heavy sit outside of your spawn just on the other side of a corner? It's disastrous and kills the server even more in terms of population.
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Post by Taco_Human on 26/6/2010, 13:20

1 heavy is fine.
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Post by Young Greezy on 26/6/2010, 13:31

Well hatter, I promote killing off sniper for one simple reason.

The sniper has no impact on the team dynamic in TF2.

If he was removed, what would change? They'd probably lower heavy down to 250 health, and that would basically be it. The balance would still be the same, and maps would not have to be redesigned.

If you remove a heavy, scouts and soldiers gain an advantage, as it is easier for them to roam without worrying about being shredded.

A little teamwork is all it takes to kill a heavy without a sniper.

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Post by Epps on 26/6/2010, 13:56

I voted one heavy and here's why:

Heavies are easy to counter; one spy is enough and when there are spycheckers involved all you need is a little bit of teamwork which doesn't go any further than attacking him at the same time.
However 2 heavies are harder to counter, they often check eachother and have too much attacking power making close and semi-close range nearly impossible for normal players. Only real way to take them out would be an all in attack or a sniping spy aka by using unballanced tactics.

td;dr: just read it if you want to be involved with this.

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Post by Nicobbq on 26/6/2010, 16:24

I don't agree that Snipers are the opposite of heavy...you say that this is because of their short range vs long-range....so basically you say that the sniper is the ennemy of
1.Heavies - Short Range
2-Pyro - Short Range
3-Scout - Short Range
4-Demoman - ShortRange
5-Engies - ShortRange
6-Medic - ShortTange

Almost all classes are short-ranged compared to the almighty sniper.

So I keep on saying 1 Heavy is perfect.
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Post by The Mad Hatter on 26/6/2010, 17:40

Well at least it's obvious it'll be dropped to 1 Heavy. I'll approach this again when we've all had a chance to be throughly destroyed by one good Heavy with less than ten players.

I didn't mean this to become a Sniper vs. Heavy asinine debate, we'll just give it time.
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