well, testing of orange_b_n went underway...

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Post by Tendo on 18/4/2010, 12:13

It seems people generally liked it. There were concerns about the health kits being in area's that are camper-friendly, the windows, having too much cover, etc.

Changes im going to do today:
-Make it so the one-way ramp has a trigger_push. This will push enemy's away from the spawn, into the open.
-Fix the window problem. Its harder to jump into it, so im going to work on that.
-Deleting the cargo container that is parallel to the spawn, reducing the cover
-Moving some health kits

Post any Idea's you may have to improve the map, or say what you think needs fixed
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Post by Epps on 18/4/2010, 12:32

I found a bug inside the tower (ground level):
Spoiler:
well, testing of orange_b_n went underway... Bug10

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Post by Eraserhead on 18/4/2010, 14:19

The ramp outside spawn has an exploit. Someone of the opposing team can sit under it and you won't see them.

The railing of the ladder outside spawn (left), if you stand on it you float.

See here how people rate the map, the score is almost as high as normal orange:

http://www.pulpfortress.com/maprate.php?sort=ratings

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Post by Tendo on 19/4/2010, 10:12

Version 2 was played.
I really couldnt find anything wrong with it, besides some prop issues.

Any thoughts/ideas/suggestions you have, keep posting.




PS. I know custom maps are neglected (for the most part), so i think we should play it during the rotation. That will be good enough for me
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Post by FUBAR on 19/4/2010, 11:06

hi Tendo ,

1st : great job on your map , you asked for some thoughts / ideas on the map:

the containers : would be nice if all classes could stand on or use it , so a ladder/blocks/or whatever would be nice at the front side so it will not be a sniperhideout.

the low wall near the tower (there is a small medpack ,ammopack in the corner) , is just a little bit to high for fast jumping ( only scout can do that jump ) on it compared to the original x3

the red side is to dark ( red bricks / orange wall ) , red enemy is hard to see from a distance

you did a great job inside the tower , making it real simple now to run up the stairs fast

i like the sliding doors at spawn

i also like the "saveroom" into spawn

and i love the "pulpfortress" logo

real cool is what you did with controlpoint 1 and 5 ( please make a tunnel to cp 2 and 4 lolz )

overall i liked it a lot
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Post by Eraserhead on 19/4/2010, 12:20

Last night after you were offline we uploaded the fixed map and tried it out, had loads of fun.

The containers now have crates behind them so you can jump on them. Some of the walls were lowered and the healthpack behind the short long wall is now near the containters (more in the open).

I asked him to add the www.pulpfortress.com logo which can be seen from inside spawn and it looks great.

I also requested at version without wall textures, and instead just plain orange like in the the original version so it would be even more fps friendly for people with low-range computers.

Mad Hatter came along and stated that this map was a bad idea because it causes a lot of people not to connect, they don't like custom maps is what he stated and they just want orange_x3. There were at that moment 10 people on the server while normally it would be a lot busier on sunday evening he said. Panda confirmed this and said other people have made similar remarks.

Anyway the map was really fast to download for everyone so this was not the problem. We could like rotate the map where we run it for a week and then back to orange_x3 and back to this one and so forth.

We should be able to compare our server rank easily thanks to gametracker: http://www.gametracker.com/server_info/63.211.105.54:27015/

But when a TF2 update comes out the amount of players will skyrocket and the comparison will be useless.

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Post by miht on 19/4/2010, 15:32

Eraserhead wrote:Last night after you were offline we uploaded the fixed map and tried it out, had loads of fun.

The containers now have crates behind them so you can jump on them. Some of the walls were lowered and the healthpack behind the short long wall is now near the containters (more in the open).

I asked him to add the www.pulpfortress.com logo which can be seen from inside spawn and it looks great.

I also requested at version without wall textures, and instead just plain orange like in the the original version so it would be even more fps friendly for people with low-range computers.

Mad Hatter came along and stated that this map was a bad idea because it causes a lot of people not to connect, they don't like custom maps is what he stated and they just want orange_x3. There were at that moment 10 people on the server while normally it would be a lot busier on sunday evening he said. Panda confirmed this and said other people have made similar remarks.

Anyway the map was really fast to download for everyone so this was not the problem. We could like rotate the map where we run it for a week and then back to orange_x3 and back to this one and so forth.

We should be able to compare our server rank easily thanks to gametracker: http://www.gametracker.com/server_info/63.211.105.54:27015/

But when a TF2 update comes out the amount of players will skyrocket and the comparison will be useless.
that might mean not a lot of players for a week =\ then you never know if they come back for orange x3
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Post by Tendo on 19/4/2010, 16:24

People do like a change, so it doesnt always have to be orange. Maybe every wed's is < < < < < < < < pulp All map > > > > > > > > >. Just an idea.
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Post by Furgus on 19/4/2010, 16:40

Yeah maybe we could have like two days where we host different maps.


Monday- Orange_x3
Tuesday-rotation of different orange maps
Wednesday-orange_x3
Thursday-Maybe a rotation of stock maps
Friday-orange_x3
Saturday-rotation of different orange maps
Sunday-A map rotation with the most popular maps played. (could be stock or orange ect.) We could like vote for it. At the end of a round that is the last round of the map.


This would work really well. And we could put up these events on the steam groups. So people could be notified.
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Post by Eraserhead on 19/4/2010, 17:55

Why would this work very well? Because my point was that the server was not filled enough when we didn't have orange_x3 and i DID make an event.

I really don't know what it takes to get a full server all the time. Stupid NO HEROES ff'ing low grav orange server is filled with 32 players.... Evil or Very Mad

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Post by Furgus on 19/4/2010, 18:06

I know it's hard to get in there. And the people who play there dislike clans. Maybe one day when this clan becomes to big. to be a clan. We could make it a community. And have servers in more than just one game. Like NO heroes.
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Post by Google on 19/4/2010, 18:27

Ehh , well the stuff that I hated were already stated, i.e.: Too dark, hard to jump into the 2nd floor of the tower via the window
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Post by Young Greezy on 19/4/2010, 18:38

The only thing that is going to fill the server is time. When pulp was just getting started, the sever was not often populated, and rarely busy. As time has gone on, we've developed a usual crowd, and the clan has grown. People came here for the experience to play orange. It is true that the switching of maps has a direct correlation with the decrease in population. This doesn't mean that orange_x3 is a BETTER map with more potential though.

When our popularity falls like that, it is because people see an unfamiliar map. They don't want to try out a fixed verson, they want the map they've always played on. This isn't to say that we should immediately switch back to orange_x3. Given time, people will warm up again to the server and become familiar with the new map, similarly to how they originally warmed up to the server over the first months that it was active. The only difference this time is that we've already got an established central community, as well as people who have our map in their history, so it shouldn't take quite as long.

To summarize, we shouldn't be so hasty in switching the map back to crappy old x3 when we see an immediate player drop. We know in our hearts that tendo's version fixes a lot of the problems of the original. If he does it with no textures, it too can appeal to people with poorer computers. We should have patience, and over time, I feel as though we'll see the player count rise and exceed what it originally was. This will also serve to filter out all the X3 only noobs.

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Post by Furgus on 19/4/2010, 21:04

Inspiring Greezy. Your are my Hero. lol
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Post by Eraserhead on 20/4/2010, 06:23

Very well spoken Greezy and i'm exited to announce that last night i uploaded Tendo's latest version that has no wall textures but instead the original orange color. So we can try it out later today if you guys want.

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Post by Tendo on 20/4/2010, 10:13

Cool. I really want to see everyone playing it Smile.

I added eraser's idea of a 'win-ramp' (When you win, a ramp to the opposite teams spawn appears, providing ALL classes the chance to murder the failures. I also think that it doesnt look to bad, having the orange textures. Bricks got old fast, they were so 4 days ago...
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Post by hyce777 on 20/4/2010, 18:07

I was just playing on the map, and I liked it, overall.

Some changes that would make it better:
-Fix the sun angle. It currently is giving light, but the buildings block it out. Set it near -90.
-Make the ramp back into spawn either invisible, or a different texture. To make it invisible make it be a nodraw, or say Render Mode -> don't render.
-Make one of the healthkits (tower?) a medium. All smalls isn't that helpful, even if this is orange.
-This is just an idea, but make the bridges in the tower a little thinner so dispensers can be put under them.
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Post by Eraserhead on 21/4/2010, 05:50

Thanks Hyce. Lets get some more playtime on the map before you make a new version Tendo. Let's harvest some more idea's.

I very much like the ramp that you have on the ground floor of the tower which makes it easy to walk upstairs. Maybe you could do the same thing for the ramp at spawns? So you can walk up it from the frontside but also leftside and rightside.

I've heard more people make remarks about the brightness/sun.
(PS: Wouldn't it be cool to have a parameter that would change the sun angle in a map in real time according the server timezone?)

I like the small healthpacks, don't have to be big ones fore me. They keep it competitive.

After we switched back to orange_x3 yesterday i really missed your map so i guess for me your map is better then the original.

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Post by Tendo on 21/4/2010, 10:44

[quote="hyce777"]
Make the ramp back into spawn either invisible, or a different texture. To make it invisible make it be a nodraw, or say Render Mode -> don't render.


No, because we want first timers to see where they can get up. It also helps to show where it starts.If your in the corner, its easy to walk around somthing you can see

The healthkits will stay small

And yes, other people have been asking for the sun change. It was discussed earlier.

I can do do the 180degree ramp idea for the spawn.

Im leaving the bridges as the normal height. As much as i like idea's to make engies OP (because they're underpowered) that is an element of orange that i think should stay
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Post by Eraserhead on 21/4/2010, 11:56

The latest map has gotten a higher rating than original orange_x3!

Look for: cp_orange_x3_pulp_b2-dev

http://www.pulpfortress.com/maprate.php?sort=ratings

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Post by Eraserhead on 21/4/2010, 19:48

I see the maprating has dropped a bit. omg i had a great time today on this map, way better then orange_x3!!!!

And we had 19 players cheers

Tendo, for this accomplishment i will reward you with a custom hat of your choosing. Just let me know which one you desire. What a Face

I had 2 more idea's:

-can you put a spotlight on the www.pulpfortress.com inside spawn? I think most people don't see it. Or does this lighting give people a lower fps?
-can you make a 180 ramp INSIDE spawn too?

Btw this map really IS more efficient then orange_x3 just like Sgt Pepper said because when i played yesterday with 19 players i didn't notice any lag while normally on orange_x3 i get lag with this amount of players!

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Post by Epps on 21/4/2010, 19:57

Again, great map. This is what it have doon for me so far:
-It increased my overall FPS.
-It lowered my hatred towards snipers.
-It increased my spy skills.
-It made me enjoy TF2 a little bit more than usual.
-It made me laugh more than once.

Also, at the teleporter/panic room you might want to add a sign or text so people will know what it is. Ow, a HL2:DM/HL2 Health dispenser on a wall would be cool for some laughs and giggles xD Forget about that, I'm gonna turn that idea into a spray xD

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Post by Eraserhead on 21/4/2010, 20:04

Yes i was also thinking about putting a spray on the floor: 'put teleport there' with arrow pointing left.

I laughed when i saw our engie building a teleport outside spawn...
Poor bugger had tried to build it inside of course.

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Post by ninji on 21/4/2010, 22:03

I played on this map with a good number of people not too long ago, here is my impression:

Things I like:
-Pulp Fortress all over the map.

-That nifty little room on the side of spawn, whatever that is.

-The containers, and trucks, and such around the map to add cover. This is especially useful for player on the opposite team of a pesky sniper.

-The final cap is awesome, the two spiral stair cases are an enjoyable variable at the final point. Ask Greezy, he took full advantage of the little nook down there. Then I took advantage of his disadvantage. Ask him about that too.

-The ramp at the bottom of tower is easier. (Saying this is easier will look odd considering my next few statements)

-When a team wins, a ramp appears, and it says "Win" and thats just awesome.




Things I hate:
-Its piss easy to get into spawn. It was bad enough when I would knock a Scout down low enough for a one hit/two hit kill, only for him to run off to spawn. Now everyone can do it. Bad, bad, bad.

-The whole situation next to the entrance of spawn, where you can easily hop up from the stair case, to the wall next to it, is too easy. I liked it when it was sort of an exclusive deal where only a few skilled players could make it up. Now everyone can, we need to avoid catering to that crowd, to put it lightly.

-I do declare, the name of the map is "cp_Orange.bsp", not "cp_OrangeAndTeamColors.bsp". I absolutely understand why you would add this, but I have to say how much I want this removed.

-Try to understand the area of the map I am concerning: You leave spawn, turn left past the wall, turn left past the outward corner, turn right when you get to the inward corner, turn left when you get to the outward corner. Now stop. Ahead of you is a ramp up, to a plateau, of sorts; if you are a Sniper, it is impossible to sniper over it. I hate this. For an avid sniper, this is a nightmare. I can see why you did this, to underpower the sniper, but I don't think you understand the amount of skill it takes to get an enemy on the other end, unless it is another sniper, standing still.




General things to fix:
-There are many instances where there is no wall, or texture, and you can see right off into the skybox. Pepper mentioned a spot on the first page.


I hope you can take heed of my insight.
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Post by Tendo on 22/4/2010, 10:12

ninji wrote:

-Try to understand the area of the map I am concerning: You leave spawn, turn left past the wall, turn left past the outward corner, turn right when you get to the inward corner, turn left when you get to the outward corner. Now stop. Ahead of you is a ramp up, to a plateau, of sorts; if you are a Sniper, it is impossible to sniper over it. I hate this. For an avid sniper, this is a nightmare. I can see why you did this, to underpower the sniper, but I don't think you understand the amount of skill it takes to get an enemy on the other end, unless it is another sniper, standing still.

I hope you can take heed of my insight.


so you want it lowered? Yea, i guess i could do it.

For the spotlight on the letters (@ eraser) i doubt it'll add much.

Yes, i was planning on putting text above the 'safe-tele' room, so next vers will have that
***This will also have a spotlight (and i may add a prop to help draw attention to it.
I will do the 180 degree ramps, where it is possible.

**I am also debating on adding a second level to the spawn. I dont think it will effect the FPS or anything badly, but it will help people see the www.pulpfortress.com... if i do it right



A hat of my choice eh? I would have to see a list Very Happy
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