Re: Sniping is easy on Orange_x3

by **Google** 10/8/2010, 19:19

A kills a kill. The game is for fun. It's part of the game.

by **Nicobbq** 10/8/2010, 19:24

Google wrote:A kills a kill. The game is for fun. It's part of the game.

by **jameless** 10/8/2010, 19:37

LoL. K guys let's slow it down a bit. We're getting a little fired up but you need to remember, we are simply testing this right now. We want to see what we can do with the plugin first. Then once we know if it works and how it works we can then discuss options for using/not using it. We aren't permanently installing it right now. Let's take this one step at a time.

by **hyce777** 10/8/2010, 20:36

Nicobbq wrote:
Google wrote:A kills a kill. The game is for fun. It's part of the game.

by **Eraserhead** 10/8/2010, 20:38

hyce777 wrote:
Nicobbq wrote:
Google wrote:A kills a kill. The game is for fun. It's part of the game.

I repeat, orange_x3 is not a part of 'the game' as Valve designed it. No Valve map has spawn points where you must pass an open area where snipers can safely bodyshot you from such safe a range (closest i can think of is 2fort), the sniper class was not designed like that. You don't see anti-sniper constructions in orange map variants for nothing.

The author of the plugin is very responsive to our requests. He already fixed the Shiv bug within an hour and just released another version that allows instant kills when headshotting people (isn't that a nice feature?). We now asked him to implement noscopes kills so i don't see any problems anymore if that will be realized.

It's situational when you do an ingame vote like that Nico because if you would do the same vote after someone has been standing for hours on cp2 bodyshotting you and your teammates as soon as you leave spawn everyone would say it's a great plugin.

I don't snipe much but if i do i seldom use noscope, and it's not even your main class Nico/Google so whats all the commotion about? Like James said, it's just an experiment. We can always remove it, change it or make it a votable feature like Moo requested.

by **Young Greezy** 10/8/2010, 20:55

Instead of bastardizing the gameplay, why don't we rectify the map.

We don't need all these plugins, all we need is a map fix. That should be our top priority.

After a while, you can't keep patching the same shitty pair of jeans, you have to get new ones.

by **Google** 10/8/2010, 21:42

Eraserhead wrote:
hyce777 wrote:
Nicobbq wrote:
Google wrote:A kills a kill. The game is for fun. It's part of the game.

I repeat, orange_x3 is not a part of 'the game' as Valve designed it. No Valve map has spawn points where you must pass an open area where snipers can safely bodyshot you from such safe a range (closest i can think of is 2fort), the sniper class was not designed like that. You don't see anti-sniper constructions in orange map variants for nothing.

A body shot is part of the game. A body shot and a head shot = a kill.

I have seen an anti sniper orange map variants that has like a wall that covers 2nd point so no one can snipe/you can't snipe.

And basically what Greezy said.

by **hyce777** 10/8/2010, 23:09

If you do want to do the "patch" method (Greezy's idea for a better map is better IMO), why not make it so fully charged body shots only do the damage of a non-charged body shot?

by **Eraserhead** 10/8/2010, 23:19

thats one of the options

by **Lord Zurkov** 11/8/2010, 00:57

Young Greezy wrote:Instead of bastardizing the gameplay, why don't we rectify the map. We don't need all these plugins, all we need is a map fix. That should be our top priority. After a while, you can't keep patching the same shitty pair of jeans, you have to get new ones.

Second.

As much as I think Snipers are irreparably overpowered, jacking around with their bodyshot damage probably isn't the way to balance them.

by **jameless** 11/8/2010, 06:58

I'm just gonna leave this here. Wink

Lord Zurkov wrote:I wouldn't mind Snipers if they actually played the game the way Valve intended... slow, calculated shots on important targets. As-is, they just shoot as fast as they can at anyone they see and aim for the head.

If there was a plugin to limit the Rifle's ammo to 13 (like the Huntsman) and/or Rifle bodyshots dealt hella less damage, I wouldn't rage so often about Snipers.

by **Epps** 11/8/2010, 07:38

Okay, why the hale would we do this? We already limited the amount if snipers to one. How the hale can one sniper piss you off so much that you want to ragequit?! If you can't stand snipefests then get a good pc and play stock maps. Also it's the TF2 community that decided bodyshots are bad, as for me I don't care how I die/kill as headshots are just easier kills.

by **Eraserhead** 11/8/2010, 09:24

Perfect contradiction here Zurkov:

Lord Zurkov wrote:As much as I think Snipers are irreparably overpowered, jacking around with their bodyshot damage probably isn't the way to balance them.

Lord Zurkov wrote:I wouldn't mind Snipers if they actually played the game the way Valve intended... slow, calculated shots on important targets. As-is, they just shoot as fast as they can at anyone they see and aim for the head.

If there was a plugin to limit the Rifle's ammo to 13 (like the Huntsman) and/or Rifle bodyshots dealt hella less damage, I wouldn't rage so often about Snipers.

You can all keep saying that bodyshots are part of the game but my argument that orange isn't part of the game design no one replies to. How can you say something and see it separate from the fact we are not running a stockmap? Yes a bodyshot is a part of the game but orange isn't and the fact is that we run this map simply can't be waved away.

I really don't understand what the commotion is about, do you all rely so much on bodyshots? The main snipers in our clan Gibbo and Vital don't even have problems with it so i don't understand why this is such an issue for everyone else.

The bodyshots aren't an issue for me most of the time but sometimes they are. Therefore i recommend we make this a feature that will be off by default but can be voted ON in those cases where you have someone who takes up the sniper spot and full charge bodyshots people all the time.

Another thing we could do is just use the plugin to make bodyshots half damage and make headshots instant kill at all times? Just useful options we could utilize if we want them.

by **wtfisaboolet1234** 11/8/2010, 12:00

Eraser:

or instead of making a stupid vote thing just turn it on and leave it on.

Actually eraser why the hale are you arguing with everyone here? your point is valid, and you're leader of PULP. You should get the final word and opinions on mods, not pulp members. if you want it installed, go ahead and do it.

by **Nicobbq** 11/8/2010, 12:33

ErasaNoob wrote:You can all keep saying that bodyshots are part of the game but my argument that orange isn't part of the game design no one replies to. How can you say something and see it separate from the fact we are not running a stockmap? Yes a bodyshot is a part of the game but orange isn't and the fact is that we run this map simply can't be waved away.

Orange is a map meant to be fun, even though it has a lot of flaws, stop saying it's not part of the game, it's one of the most popular map.

Erasanoob wrote:I really don't understand what the commotion is about, do you all rely so much on bodyshots? The main snipers in our clan Gibbo and Vital don't even have problems with it so i don't understand why this is such an issue for everyone else.

Because they are really good, they do less bodyshots than other people. I suck at sniping and sometimes I did lucky Bodyshots. those lucky bodyshots now doing 0 damage is totally annoying and retarded. I mean, its a fucking bullet in the chest, it's not a miss!

Erasanoob wrote:
The bodyshots aren't an issue for me most of the time but sometimes they are. Therefore i recommend we make this a feature that will be off by default but can be voted ON in those cases where you have someone who takes up the sniper spot and full charge bodyshots people all the time.

I can agree with this.

Erasanoob wrote:
Another thing we could do is just use the plugin to make bodyshots half damage and make headshots instant kill at all times? Just useful options we could utilize if we want them.

Bodyshot = half-damage
Headshot = Don't touch it, instant killing a 500HP buffed heavy is not really nice either.

This game is TF2, not freaking Modern Warfare 2!

by **Eraserhead** 11/8/2010, 12:45

wtfisaboolet1234 wrote:Eraser:

or instead of making a stupid vote thing just turn it on and leave it on.

Actually eraser why the hale are you arguing with everyone here? your point is valid, and you're leader of PULP. You should get the final word and opinions on mods, not pulp members. if you want it installed, go ahead and do it.

I like arguing Very Happy

. Besides, everyone in here i consider my buds so i like to enjoy the game with you all and not alone!

Nicobbq wrote:Orange is a map meant to be fun, even though it has a lot of flaws, stop saying it's not part of the game, it's one of the most popular map.

I said it wasn't part of the game DESIGN. Valve created the sniper but they didn't create Orange_x3.

Nicobbq wrote:Because they are really good, they do less bodyshots than other people. I suck at sniping and sometimes I did lucky Bodyshots. those lucky bodyshots now doing 0 damage is totally annoying and retarded. I mean, its a fucking bullet in the chest, it's not a miss!

I'm a lousy sniper too but still i hate to shoot people like that, unless it's to finish them off.

Nicobbq wrote:
Bodyshot = half-damage
Headshot = Don't touch it, instant killing a 500HP buffed heavy is not really nice either.

I agree, instant kill is OP but this was considered as a compensation for bodyshot = no damage. If you can't finish of an overhealed enemy after a headshot with a bodyshot then headshot should instant kill but i agree we should not use this.

by **hyce777** 11/8/2010, 13:21

Eraser, it comes down to this: Why do we run standard orange x3? There are way better versions of the map (tendo's, _viper, etc) that are more fun, and better balanced. Why not just run those? (not to mention, my mod fixed the sniping from point 2) Tendo's does need to be fixed, however if I get the map file I can fix it relatively easily.

by **Eraserhead** 11/8/2010, 13:27

pfff lets not start this in a discussion about orange maps now, there are so many threads about that already and everything has been said already.

We will try out the map in due time. It's Tendo's map, he should fix it. I will ask him. And i will at Chuck Norris' map first and we will test drive the map on VIP first with PULP members and regulars.

by **Young Greezy** 11/8/2010, 16:01

Why do we need to test drive maps? Let's just pull a valve and throw it at the community and see what happens!

by **Nicobbq** 11/8/2010, 16:54

Young Greezy wrote:Why do we need to test drive maps? Let's just pull a valve and throw it at the community and see what happens!

THIS

by **Vital** 11/8/2010, 17:29

I still want the plugin due to the challenge it place. Regardless of what kind Orange_x3 map it is, it's still a huge open area and it makes sniping easy as hale, even with my tall hat where I have it on to draw attention, sniping is still so much easy and annoying where it makes the game boring.

tl;dr Sucks for snipers that are noobs, but Snipers who are extremely good love this plugin.

by **Torchic** 11/8/2010, 17:45

This is pointless because this will cause all the amazing snipers to overpower the ones that suck (which includes me) and will cause unfair gameplay changes. FOr those reasons I say nay

by **Vital** 11/8/2010, 17:46

Well, we could probably make the sniper plugin effect the ranking plugin in some way so it'll effect specific ppl.

by **Furgus** 11/8/2010, 18:50

Well Eraserhead, recently I've been playing on the no heroes server. and the created their own version of the orange map. In my opinion it is well built. I would really like you guys to try it and give your opinion on it. Here is the server information:

Name: [NO HEROES] Orange maps| Low Gravity| 512 FPS| Hlstatsx
IP:64.34.184.223:27015

Tendo maybe you could play this map and see what good qualities there map has. So we could see what things could be changed in your map to make it better. It's just an idea.

by **wtfisaboolet1234** 11/8/2010, 20:07

I just want an orange with health packs. I don't care what custom orange someone makes, just pick one thats fair to non snipers/non pyros by putting in walls and health packs.

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